The Gaming Den

Hello. I spotted the Dungeonomicon over at the D&D forums and was highly intriuged by the assassin class. I'm not trying to discount the work of the authors (which I think is great), but has any looked it over and checked that it's balanced. Someone on these boards, I mean. It's just that I thought 6d6 death attack damage and hide in plain sight by 3rd was a bit crazy.

Thanks.

The easy answer: A Rog3 could have taken 2-weapon Fighting at level 3 and, instead of wasting that full round studying his target, attacked. In fact, made a full attack--twice. That's +8d6 damage, instead of the assassin's +6d6.

A Wiz3 could simply cast invisibility, which requires no die roll and skill ranks.

It takes multiple rounds to set up.

The average damage over X number of rounds is about the same as a rogue flanking with a melee brute that can pull attacks off of the rogue (Barbarian via being larger in the pants damage-wise, Knights via OMGWTFPWN damage dice, Fighters via Cock-blocking attacks on the rogue and Samurai by getting trainloads of AoOs for "no raison!").

You brought up a good point that usually throws people off of the 'sin class at first; until people recall that a rogue can throw weeaboo amounts of 'jury-rigged' Oil flasks and use TWF shenanegins to fire off a half dozen ranged-touch attacks that can use Precision damage and ignore Dex and are against Touch AC (so, AC 10 or less).

So ranged-touch attack Rogues have a to-hit of : "yes" and deal damage equal to = [attacks x 2] x [1d6/2 levels]

When fire-immune BS shows up, a +1 Frost Adamantine Net fits the bill to kill shit, that or Coldfire.

In short, yes, we've run the numbers. You'll find out that around here we don't do much else when it comes to game balance.

Col, cheers.

Judging__Eagle at [unixtime wrote:1194670827[/unixtime]]When fire-immune BS shows up, a +1 Frost Adamantine Net fits the bill to kill shit, that or Coldfire.

Or Acid Flasks, or Alchemists Frost, ect.

Alyss at [unixtime wrote:1194669573[/unixtime]]Hello. I spotted the Dungeonomicon over at the D&D forums and was highly intriuged by the assassin class. I'm not trying to discount the work of the authors (which I think is great), but has any looked it over and checked that it's balanced. Someone on these boards, I mean. It's just that I thought 6d6 death attack damage and hide in plain sight by 3rd was a bit crazy.

Thanks.

It's the setup time that really makes it not as good as it could be. Because you have to set up, then attack (and not miss), and in the mean time the rogue with TWF has attacked 4 times with with +4d6 per hit.

So yeah.

In general, Frank and Keith have tried to put things in the middle of the curve. So the Assassin is supposed to be compared to a Rogue. Thus, he is clearly superior to a "basic" Rogue.

But a real Sneak Attack build would go around like Roronoa Zoro with twin Deadly Precision Barbed Daggers of Speed and mouth-wielded Wand of (Wraith/Golem/Vine/Grave)strike. With some dipping and a few choice feats and magic items this guy will vastly outperform the Assassin, especially considering that he can take Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting as a bonus feat.

The same is generally true of most of the Tomes' content. it looks broken but in fact it's mostly smack in the middle of D&D balance and far less open to abuse than a lot of Core material.

shirak at [unixtime wrote:1194697614[/unixtime]]
But a real Sneak Attack build would go around like Roronoa Zoro with twin Deadly Precision Barbed Daggers of Speed and mouth-wielded Wand of (Wraith/Golem/Vine/Grave)strike.

Mouth wielded? What feat allows you to do that?

Your name looks familiar. Have I seen you somewhere else?

Also, RC, shirak; mouth-wielding is unnecessary because Quick Draw comes free with Sleight of Hand. You can just "hide" your weapons on you as a free action, draw your wand as a free action, use it as a swift action, hide it as a free action, and draw your weapon again.

Might I add that the visual for this is, in fact, awesome?

Judging__Eagle at [unixtime wrote:1194670827[/unixtime]]It takes multiple rounds to set up.

The average damage over X number of rounds is about the same as a rogue flanking with a melee brute that can pull attacks off of the rogue (Barbarian via being larger in the pants damage-wise, Knights via OMGWTFPWN damage dice, Fighters via Cock-blocking attacks on the rogue and Samurai by getting trainloads of AoOs for "no raison!").

You brought up a good point that usually throws people off of the 'sin class at first; until people recall that a rogue can throw weeaboo amounts of 'jury-rigged' Oil flasks and use TWF shenanegins to fire off a half dozen ranged-touch attacks that can use Precision damage and ignore Dex and are against Touch AC (so, AC 10 or less).

So ranged-touch attack Rogues have a to-hit of : "yes" and deal damage equal to = [attacks x 2] x [1d6/2 levels]

When fire-immune BS shows up, a +1 Frost Adamantine Net fits the bill to kill shit, that or Coldfire.

Why ruin a good post with those memes?

Which memes did he even use?

As far as I can tell OMGWTFPWN, 'no raison', and 'weeaboo'.

Those don't count as memes, they are just words.

-Username17

Plus, "no raison" is a quote from Futurama. But he did use "weeaboo" wrong.

Whatever. It's still wasting a good post.

You're the one who did nothing but point out that he had apparently "wasted" or "ruined" his post, so...

Yeah I'm mildly surprised noone else seems to think so.

MrWaeseL at [unixtime wrote:1194751597[/unixtime]]Yeah I'm mildly surprised noone else seems to think so.

Random hate is at an all-time low.

JE wrote:shenanegins

i don't think that this is the proper spelling.

[edit] - actually, it is. my bad.

Nihlin at [unixtime wrote:1194760686[/unixtime]]
Random hate is at an all-time low.

We had better fix that. Someone wheel out another WotC thread.

josephbt at [unixtime wrote:1194771649[/unixtime]]

JE wrote:shenanegins

i don't think that this is the proper spelling.

[edit] - actually, it is. my bad.

I call shenanigans!

The hilarity of commiting shenanigans by mistake; then getting called on it, then having the call recanted; then having a second call on it is pretty funny.

Is there a skub way of using weeaboo properly or is weeaboo decidedly anti-skub at any and al times?

I actually forgot where I got the 'no raison' line from when I wrote it (the "day the earth stood stupid" Futurama ep.).

I also think that the 'Futurama' writers lifted it from an 'I Love Lucy' episode where Ricky has his accent come through when he tries to say 'reason'.

You also forgot to mention the 'larger in pants' meme that we use to make fun of core (or splat book) non-casters when compared to core casters. [Edit I meant 'we' as in the Gaming Den]

Although I used it to refer to a Barbarian, not a Wizard.

However it's the RoW Barb, and everyone knows that a lvl 5 RoW Barb should be able to deal 50 points of damage a round. If they're trying to do their job right (TWF + Blitz + Power Attack = PWNT enemies, but you get really badly hurt too, w/e you're an adventurer and expected to die in combat). At lvl 6 the damage asplodes b/c they now have an extra attack.

Any and all of those terms will shit MrWaesel up the wall, but to be fair, he hates almost everything anyway.

The correct way (regardless of Skub) to use weeaboo is the following:

"I like anime."
"GTFO Weeaboo."

It can be substituted for "Wapanese" - Westerners who wish they were Japanese. So liking any aspect of any Asian country or holding a stance other than "America should have done a better job and nuked ALL of Japan" makes you Weeaboo in the extremist lands of "the Internet".

That's as Skub as it gets.

I know this is a stupid question, but does is skub supposed to represent law or chaos; or is it interchangeable so as to emphasize the meaninglessness of the terms?